This post was submitted via the CopBlock.org Submission page by Anna Cure.
***Updated*** This post has been updated at the bottom of the original post to include a dash cam video Anna Cure submitted of three Grand Island PD police at the time of her arrest, as well as some additional details, concerning prior incidents involving area police.
Date of Incident ~ 07/19/2014
Employees Involved ~ Officer Jason Allen, Investigator Darren Lindgreen, Officer J. Wood, Officer Arrends
Department ~ Grand Island (NE) Police Department
Department Contact ~ 308-385-5400/Grand Island Police FB Page
Area Cop Block Affiliate: Eastern Nebraska CopBlock on Facebook. To find the appropriate local group in your area, consult the Cop Block Groups page.
In July I was charged with a DUI in Hall County. I was found in my car at 730am, right next to a heavily traveled road in Grand Island and an extremely busy parking lot, with my feet outside my car door, no jeans and no underwear either. It was called in as a welfare check at 730am. It took 3 police officers to walk around my car for almost 3 and a half minutes with me in that condition and talk with one another before ever knocking on my window to wake me up at all. I know this from the tape my lawyer finally received last week from the county attorney’s office. It’s on the tape. The officers never asked me how I got there at all, just asked me to put my pants on and get out of the car. Nobody bothered to ask anything at all. I even asked for my lawyer on more than one occasion loud and clear as day on the video. I was even told the second time by a police officer that I didn’t have the right to an attorney and they didn’t have to grant me one either. I invoked my Miranda rights at that very point and was granted nothing at all.
I was taken to the jail, booked and, while waiting for someone to come and get me, I was in so much pain because obviously something had happened the night before. I asked to see the nurse at the jail and even her and the morning guard who worked there said I should never have been taken to the jail, I should’ve been in the emergency room for the condition I was in. They even went so far as to tell me flat out that, as soon as I was bailed out, I did not need to shower whatsoever. I was not to go home or anywhere else except the emergency room, that if they had the choice or the power they would’ve taken me in, but they weren’t allowed to.
Now, Hall County is a strict jail in many aspects, but it hurt so much to sit or lay on the concrete beds that they even allowed me to have one of the mats for a bed before the time they were handed out, and allowed me to make over 30 phone calls trying to find someone to come and get me. When I finally did get bailed out, at around 130am the next morning, the guard who walked me out even told me, my mother, and my sister that he wanted us to know that he wanted to go on record of saying he did not agree with how I was treated or the fact that I was not taken to the hospital before then and he would go on record for it because he even said if he’d worked during the day when I was originally brought in he would’ve taken me in.
After all of this, I did go to the emergency room and asked for a rape kit to be done because I didn’t remember anything from the night before except that I had asked two different people to come and get me and that I wanted to go home, and setting my beer down on a table at the bar and going to the bathroom and walking back from the bathroom to find my beer on the opposite end of the table and sitting all by itself and then nothing whats so ever except waking up in my car to cops knocking on my window. I walked into the emergency room around 2am. I even asked to be tested for GHB and they said it would’ve been too long since I’d have gotten it to even be tested at all for it, but they could do the rape kit to test for semen or anything like that. They sent a police officer to take the report and I told him everything that happened and he did take it, but when it came time for me to give them my clothes for the rape kit and so they could test my jeans especially for any DNA or anything they had me undress and place them on the floor, not in a bag or anything, just straight on the floor. The officer picked them up and carried them out, no bag, no nothing. They never even placed anything under me to try and catch any skin or anything that might have been there.
I sat and waited and waited for a sane nurse as they are the ones who are supposed to conduct a rape kit. I waited until 7am before I was told they couldn’t find an available sane nurse to do the exam. I was told to just go home and they would have one contact me on Monday morning and this was at 7am on Sunday morning!!! I was never contacted by them at all and when I contacted them on Monday afternoon I was told that someone would call me on Tuesday to go in. Tuesday came and went. On Wednesday, I went to the crisis center and was told it was too late to do anything, I had waited to long.
I did get to meet with an investigator from the police department to file an official report and here’s the real odd part. The investigator turned out to be the same police officer that was dispatched to the hospital about 5 years prior to this when my niece broke her arm playing in my sisters front yard. I had been there, so of course they had to take a statement from everyone there and make sure it was under normal type circumstances that she had broken her arm. It was the same officer that had contacted me on Facebook after the day my niece broke her arm and told me how pretty I was and how he wanted to get to know me. We did text back and forth for a few weeks until I decided he was creepy, because he wouldn’t stop texting me. So, I finally deleted him from my Facebook and changed my number.
Now, you can imagine how awkward this was especially when he even mentioned our “history” as he called it in our meeting over my sexual assault case. I do have the video of this also. I told him who I was around the night before my DUI and he told me he would look into it and see what he could find out. This was the Wednesday after my DUI. In July, the investigator went on maternity leave with his wife and was gone for 6 weeks. In all this time, they never so much as talked to any individual who was there that night at all, not a single one of them, period.
On October 1st, I began receiving Facebook messages from a guy and his girlfriend asking me why he was being investigated for a sexual assault against me, that’s how I found out they had finally talked to someone. Naturally, I called the investigator and asked how it was going with my case, you can imagine my shock at hearing he talked to one guy who had said yes we had sex, and that it was consensual, and that there was no more case to be had. They were satisfied with the fact that what the guy said was just so.
I was so incredibly frustrated that I did talk to the investigator and asked why, from the time I spoke to him to the time they contacted the one person that they did, it took them 73 days, yes 73 days!! I even asked why, if he went on maternity leave, he didn’t give the case to another investigator? His reply was he didn’t feel it warranted that attention. Now, to me and to any normal person at all this would be infuriating to say the least. During our last meeting, I was told that it was partially my fault it took so long because I didn’t have screenshots or copies of messages from the one guy’s girlfriend asking me why he came home with scratches and bleeding. I report a sexual assault and get told its my own fault and they are the ones that sat for 73 days without doing anything!!!! It’s all on tape along with emails from the investigator stating that even after all of this my clothes from that night and my rape kit were never even sent in!! They never even so much as sent them in to be tested! They completely shoved it under the rug, they never even cared enough to send it in at all!!!
Someone somewhere has to listen to me please, please, please. This is all so wrong!. The Grand Island Police Department and the county attorney’s office are getting away with everything here, all led by the man who wants to become the new district judge. Someone has got to help me. What they did with my daughter and with me now has got to stop. If they’ve done it to one family, a mother and daughter both regarding sexual assault, what else are they doing and who else are they doing it to?? These three officers even took the special time to take pictures of me without my jeans or anything in my car before they ever tried to wake me up!!! It’s gross and wrong and shows just how misguided the police officers from that morning were!!
Anna Cure
This won’t stop unless attention is brought to them.
***Update***
This is the video from the welfare check incident. As can clearly be seen, along with the great care they showed, they wanted nothing more than a DUI:
I have video of me asking for my lawyer on both occasions in this incident. Also, Officer Arrends is the resources officer at my daughters elementary school!!! I have a daughter, who is 7 now, but was kidnapped and sexually assaulted by a cops step son in the same police department as in the video. And the story where a second set of DNA was found from the night she was taken and that was lost after they realized the second set of DNA and was never found again. And now this happens to me…this is wrong!!!!
Anna Cure
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Kelly is a lifelong resident of Las Vegas, who’s been very active in local grassroots activism, as well as on a national level during his extensive travels. He’s also the founder/main contributor of Nevada Cop Block, served as editor/contributor at CopBlock.org and designed the Official Cop Block Press Passes.
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Wow, so sorry to hear this. Sexual assault is often given a low priority by police depts. Even when rape kits are done, they can sit around for months or years uninvestigated. Not sure what you can do; get a lawyer or Legal Aid if they have that in your town and learn what your options are. If you aren’t satisfied with the answer get another one. Good luck.
p.s. please ignore any jackass trolls around here; they’re pathetic peolple with nothing else to do…
umm your not right in the head are you?
You do know that the drawing is of an infant, a very deranged infant? In fact, a sociopathic, even psychotic infant? Stewie a is study in deranged. Had you used Einstein or Hawkin…
Oh brother. The moral of the story is don’t drink until you pass out and then have strangers drive you home. No one in an emergency room would tell you a nurse isn’t available to do a rape kit. It’s a specially trained nurse or Dr. who does the rape exam. I have never heard of such a thing. You claim your niece broke her arm and an officer came to investigate. Only the Dr. would make that determination if the Dr. felt the injury were “suspicious” You then go on this ridiculous rant about the office.
There’s a rumor afoot that you’ve used date rape narcotics on sheep in order to make a video, slaps. Not saying it’s true, just that it’s the talk on the street. Sheep are all “if you’re around slaps, watch your drink”.
Wow, Rain man Spice girl has a lot of sexual problems regarding animals. You are a sick and twisted individual. Get help please.
quit raping animals and we wouldn’t bring it up..
You bring up raping animals. It sounds like you have a some sort of sick fetish with animals.
whatever you want to say sheep fucker
Another childish rant by a sadist. You are a very sad case.
says the person that owns velcro gloves
I don’t own velcro gloves. I’m sure you do.
He does talk about sheeple a lot. wonder if he’s trying to make one.?
He has a long standing history of animal abuse. He once actually posted a bestiality video (no shit, he actually did) so he could accuse other posters of starring in it. One sick pup right there.
I’m afraid he believes what he says, I thought I played the crazy guy.
Why don’t you prove it? Again your strange fetishes about animals and sex only show how unstable you really are. I can see why you have an arrest record. How is the weather in College Park LV?
prove it, is that all you have. I don’t even know if there are words to describe how low your IQ goes
I believe the low IQ is yours because you make wild claims and statements but you don’t prove them.
I don’t think you have a high enough IQ to believe anything. Belief is for higher functioning animals not knuckle dragging troglodytes
You certainly don’t fit in the higher functioning animal group.
Had to reach deep for that one Sheepboy
Again, you are showing your sick fetish with animals. I suggest you get a lot of help.
Oh, so it’s somebody else who makes wild claims and statements. LOL, OK SEDDH.
You are at the top of the crazy list. How much higher are you going to go?
This is a reply to all this thread, move to New Zealand, they have 10 sheep for every person. All of you should be happy then. Accusers and deniers.
What a waste of time.
Interesting. How come you know so much about sheep in New Zealand?
Sheep farming was the largest part of their agriculture economy for much of their history. I knew that in 1965. Not knowing that shows that you know nothing about New Zealand. Middle-Earth is recent.
Or another way of answering your question: because I read. Why didn’t you know that sheep farming is important to New Zealand?
BTW, cattle farming is on the rise there, and they are also the largest exporter of venison because they deer farm too. Oh, notice I used the word “farming” not “ranching”, it’s the term they generally use. Another oddity is that they use “in” when Americans use “on”, as in they live in an island not on an island.
I ignored your ignorant innuendo. Innuendos are best served intelligently.
No one did tell her that a nurse wasn’t available. “around 2am i even asked to be tested for GHB and they said it would’ve been to long since id have gotten it to even be tested at all for it, but they could do the rape kit to test for semon or anything like that.” Which they did. So one argument of yours down.
As for the niece, she used the phrase “the same police officer that was dispatched”, meaning that the officer was called. Like by a doctor.
You’re in such a hurry to disprove others that you end up disproving yourself. Yes, they did a rape kit on her. Yes the officer was called over the niece, likely because the doctor thought the break “suspicious” or the niece’s behavior suspicious or he failed to make a report another time and wasn’t going to make that mistake again.
Sorry, but I have never heard of an ER turn down a rape kit when needed. I suggest you call a local ER and ask about that. You may believe everything written on copblock, but I assure you fantasy statements from these authors are just ridiculous.
The author said, ” It was called in as a welfare check at 730am it took 3 police officers to walk around my car for almost 3 and a half minutes with me in that condition and talk with one another before ever knocking on my window to wake me up at all”. How does the author know it was 3 1/2 minutes to wake the author up if the author was sleeping? The author claimed it was 5 hours before being told a nurse wouldn’t be available. That is complete BS. The Dr. would do it.
You said, “Yes the officer was called over the niece, likely because the doctor thought the break “suspicious” or the niece’s behavior suspicious or he failed to make a report another time and wasn’t going to make that mistake again”.
Are you serious? The Dr. calls the social workers and they do an investigation and if there are “suspicions” the PD are called. “failed to make a report”? The Dr. would lose his license. Do a little thinking.
And if the world were perfect, everything you wrote would be true.
Please post a redacted report(s).
Did you really mean redacted? There’s nothing to redact other than a few names. Maybe concise, or “with brevity”?
OTH, were your referring to the FOIA requests where the whole page is blackened but for “it”, “the” and an occasional verb or noun?
Hmmm.
Sounds like another EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of how the “never talk to the police” is a bad idea.
Instead of taking your wrongly thought out idea of staying silent. The idea is wrong in that: if you had said something….maybe the officers would have done something. And the officers were right…..you,don’t have any right to an attorney and your Miranda rights don’t apply.if they aren’t questioning you.
It always amazes me how many unfortunate and wildly crazy things happen to,CBers.
No nurse available to do a rape kit. Maybe you should have called that attorney you were wanting when the officers encountered you. Maybe he could have gien you some better advice.
Given that she was the victim by the narrative, I agree. But the real meaning of not talking to police is when you are the subject of interest for an arrest.
Given that she was both with her pants down and a possible DUI, it gets into a coin toss. Some of that toss may have had to do with how the cops acted. As for “Maybe he could have gien you some better advice.”. He likely would have. Police don’t give advice. And most certainly, no cop ever asks for a lawyer and never employs one.
Next, just because she submitted this doesn’t make her a CB’er. I know you’ve got this penchant for labeling…it’s that tribal thing.
As for a nurse available to do a rape kit. Since you’re an expert on the subject, are all nurses and doctors trained to do a rape kit? If not, how many per staff? Give me numbers. And do you know that all hospitals have sufficient numbers trained in performing rape kits that there will always be someone on duty?
I’ve said before that my family has a number of health issues, diabetes for one. I had to pull my daughter from a hospital because they had no idea how to do diabetic care, they in fact were stacking which is a real indication of no clue. My point, maybe this hospital was actually honest and no person on staff was qualified to do a rape kit in those hours.
Ray:
Pants down and DUI.
HMMM. How do most people piss? Do they pull their pants down?
And when they are drunk…..do they pass out or fall asleep rapidly? Even rapidly enough to not pull up their pants? Wow.
goof.
Roughly 51% pull their pants down, 49 % use a zipper. Neither pull their pants totally off, their underwear totally off, and then end up in a car with their legs hanging out.
So did you cross-post?
Well moral of the story, don’t mix vodka, rum, pills and strangers. :D
COPS are fraudsters aiding and abetting in
fraud every time they demand a legal name from their victims.
losethename.com
“Whatever loser”.
t.
I am so sorry to hear about this. Sadly.its not an isolated incident. But you do have an option that I have not seen in the comments. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). You have the right to see entire history of your case, from the police files. They will give you everything that is about this case and you. That is your right. Then go girl. You can use that information to press charges, however, personally, I would go to the press, and see if other women come forward. Good luck x
Roland:
Ummmm….that’s not really accurate. If the case is still kndee jnvestigatio/active/pending….she can, should and will be denied anything but the barest of knformation.
And don’t forget that it is HER FAUKT and not the police that she refused to speak too.
If you claim that any of this is “her fault”, you are the fucking problem. Please either educate or banish yourself.
Emma:
See there is the problem. We don’t even know if there was anything at all. Why? Because she followed the dumb ass CBer advice of “never talk to the police”
See….if she hadn’t been such a tool….and told the police what had happened….she likely would have gotten the investigation started properly and a rape kit done right away. She may very well have still been charged withnDUI (and rightly so as there is no information concerning her being left where the officers found her by the suspect)
And don’t you find it just a little odd that all of these assorted people remark on her horrible condition….when the only thing she mentions as being wrong when the officers found her was her lack of pants. She mentions no injuries at all. Just pantsless
Now…as for the FOIA request idea. Again…..what I said was right. If it is as she says….the investigation ISNT done. So….that means it’s open/active/pending none of the report can be released other than a “media” copy which really doesn’t contain any real info.
So…..now that you have been educated….do you have anything intelligent to say?
Educated? You are educating people? Are you serious? She may have been drugged and rapped you sad excuse for a human being. And how can she be charged with a DUI. She wasn’t driving!! The police should have asked questions like: How did you get here, do you remember anything, ETC??? You are the one who needs to be educated. And because you have nothing intelligent to add to this, I won’t waste any more of my time.
That’s his ego speaking. His original phrase was the he was here to bring the truth. At least he’s thinking of himself as an educator now, and every educator knows they can be wrong. Truth bringers are less fallible.
Ray:
That is the truth. My info about FOIA is correct. My info about why it’s dumb to “never talk to the police” is right. It’s truth. And the truth is a big education to the CBers who live in the land of lies.
If you would read blawgs without disdain, you’d realize that that say “never” is an overstatement but easier to remember than talk to police “sometimes”, because they know that the vast majority of citiizens can’t make the distinction to their benefit. It’s that diarrhea you wait for…
As for FOIA, your “truth” is just a member of a bureaucracy justifying what it does. I write that because a police department has no problem releasing information when it suits it, just like any other department in government, but falls back to “under investigation” when it doesn’t suit it. You have to have more sense of what actually goes on.
And really it doesn’t have to do with lies, it has to do with the complexity. They, CopBlockers, make it simple. So do you.
Have you seen the video about filing a complaint at a police station?
Barbara B.,
You have to remember the country you live in. If you have the keys in your direct possession and you are asleep in the car, you are still in control of the car. Better to make you a criminal than to accept you acted responsibly by parking and sleeping. So don’t park and sleep, drive home.
Ray
WOW.
Acted responsibly…..parking and sleeping it off.
Ummmmm, yo there dumbass…….how did you get to that spot where you decided to “act responsibly” and pull over, park and sleep it off?
Goof.
She acted responsibly when she parked, she acted irresponsibly before she parked. Given that you advocate punishment even when nothing occured by the purpose of the law, there is no reason to park other than to act responsibly to decrease the chances of an accident from impairment. If that act of responsibility will still be punished as if it didn’t take place, then the law isn’t reinforcing the behavior.
States have statutes requiring LEOs to run lights and/or lights and sirens when exceeding the speed limit. Police officers that don’t follow those statutes act irresponsibly. When they do turn their lights on, they act responsibly. By your argument, the officers should be punished no matter what (I realize the states seldom put teeth in statutes regarding police). The purpose of the statues has the same basis as laws on impairment, to decrease the carnage on the streets.
B.B.:
She may have been drugged. And raped.
Hmmmm.
Maybe. But her first response when found by the police is to refuse to talk to them, evoke her “Miranda rights” and ask for an attorney. And YOU think that the police not investigating her much later reported rape is somehow their fault?
The police should have asked questions. Did you forget the “never talk to the police” bit she did?
How can she be charged with DUI. As I replied to Ray….I can’t get the video on this one for whatever reason. So I can’t see her position in the car. Is she in the drivers seat! Is the car running? Are the keys in the ignition? Note that she never claims to have been driven anywhere and dumped or left. Where were her pants? In the car or elsewhere?
All of this is her own doing. If she had spoken to,the police when first encountered…..it’d be a very different story.
This may now be my new “go to story” when I write about how stupid it is not to talk to the police.
Just to get you to make distinctions, is it always stupid to not to talk to police? If it isn’t, when isn’t it? And please don’t respond solely from the police perspective, there’s a much larger world.
This was written after “reviewing the video”. The 3 and 1/2 minute pussy stare the officers did may have colored the narrative. I know, I know, no officer would do that.
Well she does mention this, though not specific about injuries, “I was in so much pain because obviously something had happened the night before”. Pounding comes to mind.
Finally, and sorry Barbara B, the problems with this narrative are that it is disjointed and it ignores Hemmingway, a good narrative isn’t what is in the story but what is left out. The extraneous details that muddy the story.
Sometimes people need to muddy the story, like bringing up Tamir Rice’s father as if it added anything other than mud.
Ray:
I’ve never been able to play the video. May be a wifi thing but I can’t get it.
As for injuries and “pounding”
Her busted “pussy” wouldn’t be glaringly obvious to every person the saw her like she is suggesting. Try again.
No, damage to a vagina is internal because vaginas are internal. You can’t see internal injuries by looking at the external parts of a woman’s genitalia. The lips take the pounding even when the vagina isn’t lubricated. She didn’t make the distinction of “my lips hurt” versus “my vagina hurts”, or that both hurt. She only wrote that she felt pain and it was obvious that something happened, given she wasn’t wearing pants or panties (and obviously she pulled both off so she could pee, everyone does).
But really, it was about the cops staring at her pussy until they awakened her. No cop would ever do that so she was obviously lying.
Now here’s a bit of education for you. Think of how people perceive things. What non-cops see is that everytime it may involve a cop doing something wrong, the investigation drags on for months, even years, and everything is kept quiet by the Department. When it doesn’t involve a cop, the Department is in front of the media spilling everything in weeks if not days.
Just as an off-topic aside: when you do the numbers regarding police contacts understand you undermine the fear cops have regarding stops. On a stat basis, by your own numbers, cops have nothing to fear in making a traffic stop just as I have nothing to fear when flying. Irrational fear is something that only the other guy has I guess.
Ray:
The “investigation” dragging is who’s fault again? It’s her as she took the bad CBer advice of “never talk to the police”
But….let’s look further into your dumb.
IF we release everything about an investigation prior to its completion…..the release of the information places the possibility of a fair trial and jury tainting into a high likely hood. That brings on mistrials, overturned convictions on appeal.
And of course…..ITS NOT LIKE TV. Case aren’t all done in 48 minutes. Cops don’t have DNASE analysis kits in their trunks. There aren’t great witnesses to every crime. That’s just on TV guy.
As for you second paragraph. I chalk that one up to too many glasses of wine by you again as it makes zero sense.
Pure obfuscation. It wasn’t about releasing “everything”. Comparing it to TV wasn’t there either. And if realeasing information may taint that fair trial, then the release of substantial information about a suspect’s history should never happen before trial, but PD’s do it all the time.
“And of course…..ITS NOT LIKE TV. Case aren’t all done in 48 minutes.
Cops don’t have DNASE analysis kits in their trunks. There aren’t
great witnesses to every crime. That’s just on TV guy.” I agree with you, but only you thought it was pertinent to anything.
Now that second paragraph of course makes zero sense to you. You don’t know what you’re doing when you do the numbers or you would see the other relationships that come out. Again, on a statistical basis, even yours, cops have no reason to fear a traffic stop. There are roughly 17,700,000 traffic stops (2008) , and deaths about, what, 20 to 30? (2×10 to the minus 6). If the 50,000 cops injured per year were all injured in traffic stops it would make less than 3 injuries per 1000 stops. Of course, the injuries would have to be categorized…
Ray:
Sigh. Oh but your dumb does march on doesn’t it?
The “TV” reference is about how people perceive things. The “CSI effect” is very well documented. And this very site is proof of the rampant misleading of people about some of the simplest of things such as Miranda and the likes.
Heck….look no further than Ferguson for,proof. People told and sold a lie. And many ate it with both hands. Even that liar recanted his story behind closed doors where he said that it didn’t happen like he’d said. But that lie….that misinformation had taken hold. And regardless of the truth coming out….people won’t see it now.
Look at this story. Her story make little sense. But you are buying it because it is what you want to hear.
Law enforcement and the judicial system aren’t about public opinion. It’s not the mob.
It stands outside the mob. It strives for justice through law. It’s not about mob rule that is based on ignorance.
Hey, you made up the argument/story of she pulled her pants down to pee and then passed out, ignoring entirely that she had no pants or underwear. So “But you are buying it because it is what you want to hear.” really becomes that you make up stories so you can believe what you want to believe.
As for Furgeson, you do realize that the prosecutor allowed witnesses to testify that he knew were lying? One witness he acknowedged was the one that backed Wilson’s story explicitly. Isn’t he being considered for some sort of prosecution?
As for lies and what they are, you must believe that Bush lied about WMDs. Otherwise, you are applying a double standard or don”t know what a lie is. I don’t see much middle ground. Rashomon is an example of different stories but no lying. Your story of peeing was a an obfuscation because you knew she, by her story, had no pants or underwear.
No wonder rape researchers call police reports too subjective.
Oh shit, people don’t make up the legal system. “Law enforcement and the judicial system aren’t about public opinion.” And I thought laws came from public opinion, silly me.
The laws come from something other than the public and it’s opinion? What does it come from? If you want to say the Constitution then you get into all those decisions before, now, and in the future made by men in government. And I thought a Republic wasn’t based on a technocracy.
You know the funny thing about your argument is that we had nearly 70 years of apartheid in this country (worse in the South, but expressed in the North and the West), and that was all Rule of Law. When the mob, not in ignorance, stood up, “you” made the argument of Rule of Law. Luckily for the mob, Bull Conner showed how the Rule of Law can be just the rule of another ignorant mob.
Mob rule doesn’t mean what you try to make it mean. It isn’t so cut and dried. Don’t divorce the ideal from the real. And please, pretty please, don’t confuse the meaning of ideal with ideals. Ideals we hold, the ideal is beyond our reach.
Redress of grievances isn’t always nicey nice like a whitey white authoritarian wants it to be. Sometimes it’s ugly, like the authoritarians did to the Labor movement. Funny thing, now that the laws are what that mob wanted, authoritarians are all for it. After all, it’s now a law that serves them.
My cynicism comes from the history. Plessy v Ferguson was the Rule of Law until that damned activist court ruled otherwise. And then it took mobs to make that ruling real.
The justice system is corrupt, they will not spend the money on a nobody, but had it been a cop that was raped it wouldn’t have bothered them to spend millions. They have become nothing more than overpaid revenue agents.
The answer is NO! They are NOT here to protect and serve ANYONE!
The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that police officers at all levels of the
government have no duty to protect the citizens of this country. It is the job
of police officers to investigate crimes and arrest criminals. In 1856, the U.S. Supreme Court (South v. Maryland) found that law enforcement officers had no affirmative duty to provide such protection. In 1982 (Bowers v. DeVito), the Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit held, “…there is no Constitutional right to be protected
by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen” also in 1999,
(Castle Rock v. Gonzales) the police have no obligation to protect individuals
who, therefore, should defend themselves. The content of state laws does not
matter; by Colorado State law, the police are required to “use every reasonable
means to enforce a protection order.” The Supreme Court has ruled and
that’s that. 1983 “In its landmark decision of DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Department of Social Services” Stevens writes, “the U.S. Supreme Court declared
that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments
to protect the citizens from criminal harm.”
Drake:
My oh my. You’re like a special kind of touched in the head aren’t you?
Seriously though…..let’s walk through your thoughts a little.
Police Officers have No Duty to Protect You.
That is your overall stance.
Now without going into the specifics of the cases you wrote of…..most of them aren’t dealing with the police.
But setting tha aside…..let’s walk through the basics of the Public Duty Doctrine.
In the simplest ideas…..how can you expect any police officer/department to give you individual attention? As has been explored on this site many times….on most occasions there is a ratio of 1 officer per every 8000-9000 citizens. That’s per shift and doesn’t take into account times when officers are taken out of service for significant periods of time which only worsens that ratio.
Now that’s important. Let’s look at Castle Rockas a good example.
In 1999 the population there was around 22,000 people. I couldn’t find the info on how many cops there were then….but in the best scenario it would be a TOTAL of 31 guys. Not knowing their work schedule….if they worked 4 shifts and EVERYONE of those 31 guys were on patrol each day (meaning no admin, no detectives, no speciality assignments, no sick days, no training, no vacations) there would be 7 guys on duty. For 22000 people.
The point is……it’s not 1-1 ratio. Other people have needs as well. Heck, even ex-presidents don’t get 24 hour around the clock protection anymore.
The Publuc Duty Doctrine gets that….and you dont.
In your world view….we’d have to be future crime fighters and know exactly what everyone was thinking and dojng all the time. And we can’t be.
Are you really wanting the “police state” that would be te flip side to your stance?
8000 to 9000 citizens per cop? you guys are fucked when the uprising begins.
You can’t base lack of individual attention on the ratio of citizens to police officers. That is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You have to base it on how many people the police officers interacts with during the day. That’s like saying, “I really can’t pay attention to you right now because there are hundreds of old ladies sitting in their apartments doing NOTHING!”
Alex:
Ummmm No. What you clearly missed is…..if my guys average 22 calls/actions per shift….with an average of 4 people per interaction…..that’s 88 people per day. On a typical squad at my PD there are 8 officers and a typical patrol district has around 40,000 people (give or take some). So….on a typical shift that’s a total of 704 contacts out of 40,000 people. Not exactly overwhelming now is it?
Oh wait…..you don’t beleive in that analysis.
So let’s look at some other numbers that you may like better.
350,000,000 911 calls per year. Now not all of them are for the police…..but we respond to most fire and EMT’s calls as well.
45,000,000 police contacts per year.
12,000,000 physical arrests per year.
300,000,000+ people in the country.
Only 45,000,000 police contacts
Less than 800,000 LEOs.
Do you like any of those numbers?
But I’m interested though. If officer can only contact 704 people per shift…..what about 705? 912? 24,783? How can we be responsible for those folks? Do the “rights” of the the 704 not count? Should I be sacrificing them for # 12,567?
And tell me…..at what point should I step,away from “serving and protecting” you as an individual to start serving and protecting everyone else?
It’s not about the number of contacts. In this case it’s a misdirection, a diversion; it’s about what happened in this one interaction.
Ray:
Geez.
Ok guy…here we go.
All of the number stuff was just to demonstrate how this idea that the police should somehow have a duty to protect everyone all the time is ridiculous.
My comment was in reply to,yet another CBer who is wrongly understanding and wrongly spreading what those court cases mean and what the “public duty doctrine” means.
Castle Rock demonstrates it best. The existence of the restraining order doesn’t enslave the police to her for ever. It doesn’t make us her personal protection agency. Heck….if you look at the backstory of that incident…..she violated that restraining order frequently herself.
The “numbers” come into play as….how long do I late/make an officer sit at her house when there are thousands and thousands of others citizens that need seeing and protecting?
It wasn’t like the officer encountered that guy in her living room and walked away.
What’s dunny is that the very same doctrine/idea that you and Drake are misunderstanding is what lets us enter houses on welfare checks. Let’s us demand to see the other parties inside a house on 911 calls and verified complaints. In those cases…..you don’t like that protection requirements because it doesn’t fit your agenda. It’s your two faced view of the world.
The problem with the number analysis is the only thing you are showing is that you can add, subtract, multiply and occasionally divide.
So, I agree with you about the PDD regarding a specific claim but I’m still misunderstanding it because you throw something new in and then claim I misunderstand that something new when I haven’t responded to it.
Really, your last paragraph is just a train wreck. I certainly am not saying anything you claim. Since you know my agenda, you must since you know what doesn’t fit it, spell my agenda out. Describe it. If you can’t then this was just assholish: “It’s your two faced view of the world.”
You’ll change the subject.
Ray:
Ok…let me dumb it down a bit for ya.
Drake is using some of the case that the PDD is built around. He is wrongly claiming that the police have no individual,duty to anyone. The PDD doesn’t say anything about that…nor is that the point of it.
My comments about the 911 calls and entering homes on woe fare checks are encompassed by the same line of thinking as the PDD.
When I respond to your home because there is a 911 call…and I arrive and when there’s no answer at the door….but signs that someone is home…..like say the water running in the sink and theTV on….do you think that I have a duty to make sure that you haven’t had a medical emergency (or any kind of emergency) ? Or do you think I should just leave?
That’s an important way to look at it. It’s a 1000 times a day happening in the US. Hundreds of lives saved everyday in scenarios just like that. When we just walk away….that’s when we get sued for not doing our job. Because….we are on that call…..dealing with that specific person/issue right then. We have “established” that individual relationship.
And that’s what the PDD is about.
All of the numbers stuff just shows how we CANT establish individual relationships with 40,000 people when there are only 8 officers. In that population….it’d be a safe bet that there are a 1000 or more restraining orders in place (in ref to Castle Rock). We can’t have an individual relationship with all of them all the time. That’s why the numbers are important.
And that is why yours and Drake stance is so two faced. You think that we should be held responsible when we aren’t everywhere and we don’t stop every crime. But you get mad when we have a real duty and we fulfill those responsibilities.
Two faced thou art.
Let me dumb it down for you. Your argument by math is specious. Worse, it obscures the real argument. If there were 8,000,000 cops, you still couldn’t respond to every call on time to prevent harm. It simply isn’t possible
Next, and here you make a point that isn’t, you have a general duty to the public but not to anyone specific except when you respond to that specific person. PDD keeps you from being responsible to replying to every call and having responsiblity for what happens when you don’t (unless it’s so egregious that a reasonable person would ask WTF, but that’s for the courts to decide), but it does make you responsible when you do reply. I haven’t written anything different.
And here’s is why I think you can’t read, can’t think, and substitute your made up stories for reality: “And that is why yours and Drake stance is so two faced. You think
that we should be held responsible when we aren’t everywhere and we
don’t stop every crime. .”
Putting it plainly, you fuck up every argument you make regarding me when you use “you and…”, because you always, and I mean always unequivocably, confuse me and what I write with what others write. I can clearly state that I don’t believe the USA is a police state and why, and you go on and on that I do using the why of others. Not once can you learn not to live by labeling to a group, that short cut that isn’t thinking
I pulled this one quote from you because I think the rest confused your point: “You can’t base lack of individual attention on the ratio of citizens to police officers.”
Do you mean the attention that police should pay once they interact with you? If so, yes, because no argument by ratio of police to population, or to calls per shift pertains. I’m thinking you went back to your point with “I really can’t pay attention to you right now…”.
Uh, the rambling didn’t help you. You have a duty to “protect and serve” the general public but no duty or responsibility to a specific person because it isn’t possible. You haven’t failed to protect and serve if you can’t arrive in time, for example, for that specific person.
As you pointed out, somewhere in all that, you may be occupied with someone else’s problem.
I’m questioning the validity of this poorly crafted story. I pretty much stopped at the point of the nurse at intake…
If you were in such horrible shape and the nurse states you should have been taken to the hospital, she is to cease her evaluation immediately and get you to an ER right away. Rape cases do not always show actual physical evidence and your rotting in jail waiting for bail doesn’t make sense.
Sorry… Bullshit story #238783
If you only lived here in grand island you would then know how true her story is. But if it helps you sleep at night you can go ahead a keep thinking she’s making this up…
31B,
If the world were perfect everything would make sense. People screw up and there is even a cascade effect where each screw-up leads to another. I understand your reservations but not your certainty.
Anecdote: Had a good friend with a history of a bleeding ulcer. Went in for an operation that required convalescence in the hospital, on the first day after he told the staff he knew he was bleeding internally (not like he didn’t have experience). On around the third day he died from internal bleeding. The staff not only ignored him, even though they knew his history, but the symptoms until it was too late. It was a cascade of screw-ups from nurse to doctor and back.This was an A section story in Phoenix and led to changes in policies at hospitals here (like listen to the patient).
This is such a horrible story!! And I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason things were handled so badly is because it was done on purpose to hide the fact that it was the officer that found you that committed the offense.
There is much angst and consternation against prosecutors and grand
juries who refuse to bring charges against police officers,even with
incontrovertible audio and video evidence, prosecutors are loath to
prosecute rogue law enforcement personnel.
Let’s examine the reasons why it is so difficult to prosecute thug cops:
Most prosecutors are former police officers or have extensive dealings
with police departments and have ongoing relationships with police
departments in their respective jurisdictions. They are friendly with
the judges in their jurisdictions, as well. This, along with “absolute
immunity” makes it easy for them to “cover up” police abuses and
behavior. Prosecutors cannot be sued for malfeasance…it takes a judge
(who prosecutors are friendly with) to bring charges on a rogue
prosecutor (which almost never happens).
In addition, prosecutors
guide the actions of grand juries. Prosecutors are not required to
introduce any evidence to grand juries, (can and do) easily “whitewash”
the actions of rogue cops. On the other hand, prosecutors can (and
often do)go after honest citizens who seek justice outside official
channels…prosecutors have ultimate power and are not afraid to use
it…their immunity sees to that.
Another aspect to a grand jury’s
inability to prosecute bad cops is the fear of retribution…cops drive
around all day, have nothing but time, have access to various databases,
and can easily get the names and addresses of grand jurors…this, in
itself can be a powerful deterrent against grand jurors who “want to do
the right thing” and prosecute bad cops. There are many cases of cops
parking in front of grand jurors’ residences, following them around, and
threaten to issue citations to them, in order to “convince” them to
“make the right decision”…the “thin blue line” at its worst…
The whole system has to change.
Eliminate absolute and qualified immunity for all public officials.
The fear of personal lawsuits would be a powerful deterrent against
abuses of the public.
Grand juries must be superior to the
prosecutor; ALL evidence must be presented to grand jurors. Failure to
do so must be considered a felony and subject prosecutors to prosecution
themselves.
No police agency can be allowed to investigate
itself. Internal affairs departments must be restricted to minor
in-house investigations of behavior between cops. All investigations
must be handled by outside agencies, preferably at the state level.
Civilian police review boards must be free of police influence.
Members of civilian review boards must have NO ties to police
departments. Relatives of police would be prohibited from serving………