The Case Regarding The Use of Lethal Force in Self Defense Against Law Enforcement

The following post was shared with the CopBlock Network by Justin King, via the CopBlock.org Submissions Page.

Governor Mitch Daniels signed into law a bill in 2012 that authorized citizens to use deadly force to protect themselves from unlawful law enforcement activities. When he signed the law, the press and police unions had a field day describing the predicted effects of the law that they said declared open-season on cops. Since the law was signed, only one human police officer has been killed in Indiana. It was in the normal performance of the officer’s duties and completely unrelated to someone protecting themselves from unlawful intrusion or police brutality. Three police dogs have been killed in the same time period. Since its introduction, not a single officer was killed because of this law.

In fact, despite propaganda saying otherwise, police don’t have an extremely dangerous job. Law enforcement doesn’t even make the top ten list of deadliest jobs. So please, no emails explaining how dangerous the job is and how this would make it more dangerous. Also, forego the emails stating that law enforcement is there to protect the citizens. They aren’t. This was established by the Supreme Court.

While being a police officer isn’t that dangerous, it certainly seems like interacting with them is. Being a civilian that has contact with a cop is more dangerous than being a soldier in Iraq. Since the start of the Iraq war, estimates by the Department of Justice place the number killed by cops at over 5000. In all branches of service, the number of killed in action in Iraq is 4489.

These estimates only include those who actually had their lives ended by law enforcement. It does not include those that were simply beat, sodomized, or had their testicles crushed. In a just society, a young man who was stopped on the street and patted down with such force as to cause his testicle to rupture would have the legal option to defend himself against the assault. If the altercation happened between two civilians, lethal force would have been justified in order to protect from further serious bodily injury. It should have been justified in this case.

The legislatures of the various states need to produce laws that allow the citizens to protect themselves from the rogue elements of law enforcement within our society. If not, the people should petition the federal government to enact such a law. The police have failed to protect society from their own brutality. The oversight committees have failed to protect society from the police. The courts have failed to protect society by not severely penalizing these actions. The legislatures need not follow their examples.

Lawmakers should immediately enact laws that allow the citizens to protect themselves from failures that ultimately belong to the government. This is not giving a green light to violence against law enforcement. It is giving citizens a final recourse to make sure the violence is directed at the offending officer, rather than whatever officer is caught in the middle of the riot or protest that follows yet another cop walking free after brutalizing an innocent person. It has been shown in Indiana that laws like this only serve to slow police violence, not escalate violence against police. Lawmakers owe their voters the right to defend themselves against the fast approaching tyranny.

It is an almost certainty that this will be read in law enforcement circles, and many of the cops that abide by basic standards of human decency will be offended. Good. Be offended. The American people need you to start waking up and speaking up. While it may seem hard to break the thin blue line when you witness brutality, understand that the life you save may be your own. If there is one thing the recent events in Ukraine have taught us, it is that violent and brutal police action will eventually lead to violent and brutal action against the police.

Many activists in the United States felt a personal connection with the protesters in that seldom thought of Eastern European country. Just as it is assured that some law enforcement in the United States felt a personal connection to the cops. The odds are that the Ukrainian police officers that were set on fire committed no action that deserved that fate, but when mob violence occurs against the state it is indiscriminate. The odds are that the worst those particular officers did was remain silent about the brutality and miscarriages of justice they witnessed, but a time comes when silence is betrayal. If you remain silent after witnessing brutality and injustice, you have chosen your side.

History has shown without exception that those who claim “I’m just doing my job,” or “I was just following orders,” end up committing the worst atrocities known in all of human history. It has also shown that the excuse falls on deaf ears when those who were victimized finally achieve power. If you consider yourself one of the good cops, it is time to start speaking out. It is time to begin lending your voice to those beaten masses that are crying out for justice and, in some cases, retribution.

– Justin King

About the Author:
Justin King is an independent journalist whose work has been seen on digitaljournal.com, cnn.com, theblaze.com, as well as other outlets. Much of his work deals with the advancing police and surveillance state.

His sites are:
http://justinkingnews.com
http://facebook.com/justinkingnews
http://twitter.com/justinkingnews

Kelly is a lifelong resident of Las Vegas, who’s been very active in local grassroots activism, as well as on a national level during his extensive travels. He’s also the founder/main contributor of Nevada Cop Block, served as editor/contributor at CopBlock.org and designed the Official Cop Block Press Passes.
____________________________________________________________________________
Connect with Kelly at these social networks; Facebook, YouTube and Twitter.

116 Comments

  1. The police officers or SWAT will get the draw on you a lot quicker then you would on them. It’s just sad that activists actually look at this as some kind of victory. Being an officer is not that dangerous? That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard as of yet. I guess we will have to see what happens further down the road.

  2. It is the fact that pigs are ranked 18th in the danger range. And as far as a draw, lets you and i have a dual [JAKE C],ill bet i euthanize you before you get me, All swines must be put down.

  3. This was a further clarification of the state’s Castle Doctrine outlining that public servants were now subject to be met with deadly force if they unlawfully enter a property. It was a well thought out piece of legislation.

    Very much needed as it isn’t uncommon for police to perform a no-knock warrant on the wrong house and arrest or kill the person inside for defending themselves against home invaders.

    Oh yeah and.cops have proven over and over again how great their aim is. Most citizens with a carry licence have more shooting experience than any cop.

  4. A classic case of SWAT screwing up a no-knock raid is the Minneapolis Case of Vang Khang. He hit two cops and then sued and won hundred of thousands of dollars.

    And his house was across the street from the neighborhood police station.

    And the stupid SWAT team were given medals for valor for the botched raid because they got shot at and returned fire with 22 bullets that hit NOTHING BUT WALLS.

    LMAO

  5. What I want to see is Punishments Doubled & Tripled when Police are convicted of crimes. When they are supposed to be enforcing laws & they break them. They should pay a much higher price because of the truest that they have been given & then broken.

    Dont feel like that is fair, then dont become a cop of you are going to break the law.

  6. Jake C Prove you are not JF123/Slappy/Adam Miller

  7. Is being in the military considered dangerous too? It wasn’t in the top 10 either. Also, why not show the SCOTUS decision that copblockers keep referring to concerning stating that law enforcement is not there to protect the citizens. I’ve posted this before, and here it is again:

    As far as the 2005 Supreme Court decision, why wasn’t there a link posted for that? I’m guessing that the SCOTUS decision the author was referring to is Castle Rock v. Gonzales. Has anyone actually read the SCOTUS decision? Does anyone know the actual context? Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled, 7–2, that a town and its police department could not be sued under 42 U.S.C. §1983 for failing to enforce a restraining order, which had led to the murder of a woman’s three children by her estranged husband.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales

    I think that the author was referring to Warren v. District of Columbia. Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) is an oft-quoted District of Columbia Court of Appeals (equivalent to a state supreme court) case that held police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals, even if a dispatcher promises help to be on the way, except when police develop a special duty to particular individuals.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

    The key thing with this case is that it wasn’t a SCOTUS decision. District of Columbia Court of Appeals (equivalent to a state supreme court) isn’t quite that high up. Its a misconception that it was a SCOTUS ruling. If I’m wrong, just show me the correct link.

  8. Hangemhigh, if all “swines” must be put down, then why ain’t you out doing it?

  9. “Being a civilian that has contact with a cop is more dangerous than being a soldier in Iraq.”

    Spoken like someone who has never been to Iraq.

  10. Author Guy: Are you a complete imbecile?

    Your “point” quickly disproves you”point”.
    Dumb ass legislation…that what wasn’t needed. How do we know? NOTHING.HAPPENED!!!
    And “not dangerous”? Ever thought through why? Rhetorical. Of course you haven’t the first clue about it. Having multiple officers responding to calls. The use of tasers, OC spray, quicker access to DCI information, increased training in ground fighting, heck even shooting suspect before they can shoot at us….all things that have drastically lower the assaults on officers and also reduced officer homicides.

  11. Indiana cops were whining and rending their clothing, claiming this was going to mean open season on them all.

    Why? Because they like to use legal ambiguity as a weapon.
    See this legislation did nothing but spell out when it was legal for a person to defend themselves and their property agaisnt unlawful entry by a public servant.

    But so many police departments like to threaten expensive and drawn out legal actions against victims if they know the law isnt absolutely clear they were the ones in the wrong.

    Ethical, lawful and responsible police departments have no problem with this legislation because they know they are diligent about not unlawfully entering a person’s property.

  12. Great write up….. but of a cop is illegal regardless of existing law he is illegal and you have a right to defend yourself against a criminal.. nice to have a laws that says it outright rather then case law to have to decide…thx for the story keep up the good thoughts

  13. @t
    It is there if it is needed. It wasn’t needed since the time it was enacted. What if not everyone used freedom of speech? Are we going to say it is a bad law because no one uses it? No, it is a good law in case it is needed. Freedom of speech may not have been the best case but it is late and I am tired. It was the only thing I could think of. Put any other law there though and it would make sense.

  14. The thing you are all missing about the Indiana law is this – Sure, it would theoretically be legal to kill a cop who was attacking you illegally. But hold the presses folks, because just who do you think will decide if the cop was attacking you illegally and therefore if your actions were legal or not?

    Why, that will be the court system making that determination. Good luck with that one.

  15. This nothing new. The Courts have ruled that an unlawful arrest is an assault and battery and lethal force is authorized. Plummer V. State, State V. Spaulding, Runyan V. State, Jones V. State, State V. Robinson, State V. Mobley, Adams V. State, Juudy V. Lashle.

  16. @ T: Nothing happened so we didn’t need the law? Or (what actually happened) the second cops knew people could legally shoot them, they stopped kicking in the doors on wrong houses by “accident.”

    @John Public: I’d be willing to bet the author has spent more time in combat than anybody else in this thread and probably more time in combat than everybody in this thread combined. But skip the personal attack and you find that a smaller force of police officers killed more than a larger force of insurgents… it is more dangerous to deal with a cop than be a soldier in Iraq.

  17. @JQP

    ” Is being in the military considered

    dangerous too? It wasn’t in the top 10

    either.”

    Depends on the military service and if in war time. That is why a distinction is made for combat vets, and for REMFs.
    The most dangerous recent event for cops, Dorner, still left cops with better Lotto odds than meeting Dorner the hard way.

  18. @T
    ” And “not dangerous”? Ever

    thought through why?”

    Sure. Because cops pass all risks on to others, like little girls burned by flashbangs, innocent people killed, hurt, and abused in their own home, and innocent newspaper ladies.

    Old quote. “Was spares not the brave, but the cowardly.”
    I don’t think there is anything more cowardly than a cop, and the Dorner hunt proves it.

  19. @T

    As for the law, it is a needed protection against vengence prosecutions. A recent case had a guy kill the first cop smashing through his door. They want Murder 1. You’ll never prove he knew it was a cop.
    While cops insist we have to make allowances for confusion and fear for cops, like in Dorner, those same cops want to insist on zero understanding for citizens who kill cops.

  20. @Shawn – Exactly. “You can’t blame us, we have to make split-second decisions”. Yep. And when somebody is smashing through your door at 3 in the morning, while you’re asleep, you have hours and hours to figure out what’s going on and how to respond. Especially if (of course this would never happen) they are raiding the wrong house, and you have no idea why somebody would be smashing your doors down at 3 in the morning.

  21. Logic – Back up your ridiculous statement that private gun carriers have more shooting experience then police officers. That is a very ridiculous claim. Police officers have to put in a lot more gun training then the average citizen. So please prove your statement.

    hangemhigh – That is a very poor statement and one which you cannot prove. Your response is pure emotion and not actual facts.

    Logic – You blame the police for going to the wrong house. It’s dispatch who gives them the house number. I also believe there has been miss communication that has caused officers to go to the wrong house. I believe keep your cool and follow what the police are saying and then it can be worked out. Pulling a weapon on a SWAT team member will get you killed.

  22. JakeC – Prove you’re not slappy. Back it up. Prove there’s a law saying you’re not slappy. Why aren’t you using your real name? I believe you are, in fact, the bestiality video posting slappy. The one and only, accept no imitations. So prove I’m wrong. Denying you’re slappy is pure emotion, and not fact. And it’s ridiculous.

  23. FOLKS

    IGNORE THE TROLLS. (t, jake, common sense, JQP ETC…)

    if we keep responding to them they will continue to post questions which even if you answer that will never be enough for them.

    They want to bog down all these threads with their nonsense so that the true message of copblock can’t get through.

    Please, I ask you to ignore them. Dont let them bait you.

  24. Certain,

    The Indiana law ONLY pertains to peace officers or public servants who UNLAWFULLY enter a property.

    No legal warrant or wrong-house warrant is pretty easy to prove in court. So in those cases it isnt the cops word against the victims.

    This also shifts the burden of proof to the police to prove they did lawfully enter rather than to the victim to show he reasonably could not have know they were lawful.

    It us a good law. Meaning it was well written and thought out. Not knee jerk reaction like so many laws.

    Something else cops whining about this forgot all about was this covers children services as well. So if someone comes to take a child from parents and they don’t have all their ducks in a row they are abducting the child a you can defend your child and yourself if they try to stop you from stopping them.

  25. Mark,

    I want to see police get the same sentences as citizens get. I also want them to be sentenced for the time of the crimes they frame people for. So if a cop is found to purposely manufacture evidence they should be charged with the crime of obstruction, etc and then sentenced to extra time equivalent to what the victim would have gotten had they been found guilty of the crime they were framed for.

  26. Certain – I don’t’ know what your problem is with this “slappy” but your statements are quite offensive especially since you have no proof I am who you say I am. How am I supposed to prove otherwise? I mean seriously how am I supposed to prove otherwise? You should go and get some therapy and exercise your demons because calling me someone I am not without proof boarders on extreme mental illness. It also diminishes your credibility. You have made the statements and it’s up to you to prove I am not who I say I am. Only a true coward would say the things you have been saying. You don’t know me. I use my real name. What’s your excuse?

  27. Logic, just because someone has a different point of view than you do, it doesn’t make us trolls. I guess you want to be free to say inaccurate things without being called on it. Ignore us if you want, but we ain’t going anywhere. If you fact check yourself before you post, you might be more credible. You obviously don’t understand that copblock is all about misinformation and half-truths. Keep on drinking the kool ade though.

  28. ANOTHER CRIME COPS ARE RARELY.CHARGED WITH:

    Failure to Intervene

    One duty of a cop is s to protect citizens from constitutional violations.  A cop who witnesses another cop violating a citizen’s rights can be charged with Failure to Intervene.

    We have to start using these laws we already have on the books.

  29. NOTICE:

    John Q Public says:
    February 4, 2014 at 1:01 pm
    >>>>>” Ignore us if you want, but we ain’t going anywhere.”

    Everyone, let’s make him eat those words. Ignore them. Let them talk to themselves.

  30. Logic, by posting what I said, you are doing exactly what you said you wouldn’t do. Hilarious. Your ego won’t allow you to ignore us. If you did, then you couldn’t post your thousand word essays. The second one of us post something in opposition to the story, you will chime in because you can’t help yourself. You only ignore posts that show when you’re facts are not facts at all. Ignore this post too. But, deep down, you know you can’t allow me to get the last word in. Enjoy!

  31. My excuse is that you’re slappy, dude. And I am really, really, glad that it offends you. Really.

  32. Hey, Jay C. When I was in the Military all of us Medical personnel shot EXPERT and the cops that shot with us got UNQUALIFIED. I guess you have to be smarter than average to shoot a gun.

  33. Certain – Congratulations. You are now an official liar. You must project your negative energy on your family. Do you feel like I big man when you do that? Like I said before, I use my name, what’s your excuse? You sound very hypocritical with your illogical rants. You are accusing me of someone who supposedly posted a bestiality video? You obviously have graduated to needing to be committed for mental illness. Again, the burden of proof is on you. I believe I have seen lawsuits about liable and slander the way you are doing that to me. Again, you are truly a coward.

  34. Radical Dude,
    “Jake C Prove you are not JF123/Slappy/Adam Miller”. Really? Do I need to point out what you’ve just done?

  35. “Dumb ass legislation…that what wasn’t needed. How do we know? NOTHING.HAPPENED!!!” Groan, and more groan. I’m not sure that that isn’t an argument from ignorance because I have a sense that it’s a deeper basic flaw in thinking. That nothing happened doesn’t mean something shouldn’t have happened.

    “The use of tasers, OC spray, quicker access to DCI information, increased training in ground fighting, heck even shooting suspect before they can shoot at us….all things that have drastically lower the assaults on officers and also reduced officer homicides.” By those last three words, you mean officers have committed fewer homicides? Pulling out of the quote “even shooting suspect(sic) before they can shoot at us”, do you mean including guys with their hands up or guys with cell phones? Or someone with no weapons whatsoever? You see one thing, but ignore the other. You do realize everyone has a right to go home for dinner?

  36. Logic – Your unprovoked attacks are because you were asked to back up your statements and you didn’t. You made a complete fool out of yourself so you try to silence those who caught you in your BS rants. If people should avoid trolls you are at the top of a very short list. You are scared and acting like a coward. You aren’t as smart as you think you are.

    RadicalDude – Are you serious? I use my real name. What is your excuse? It’s really unfortunate that people like you who call themselves activists go off on these ridiculous tangents because you have nothing intelligent to offer for discussion. Keep up the good work. People like you, logic, and certain all of which don’t use their real names put on this superiority game but you are cowards and hypocrites. Why don’t you prove who you are.

  37. You guys aren’t even getting what the law you think is protecting you says. If the police have a lea gal search warrant….which means if it is signed by whatever appropriate judicial official….you don’t have the right to shoot. Again…..it’s not at the BRD level. It’s at the far lower PC level. Read the document you claim to love. It’s right there in the 4th amendment to that document.

    My problem with the law was it’s stupid in that it makes people…like many of you goofs think that it’s legal for you to just shoot at the police.

    Where I work, and many other places, it’s always been legal to resist an illegal arrest. The problem YIU face is in the proving it’s an illegal arrest. Just because you think you shouldn’t be arrested doesn’t cut it. Courts have already ruled that a uniformed officer telling you that you are under arrest removes that right to resist as the arrest is legal at that point. The courts don’t want people fighting it out in the street. That’s what court is for.

  38. Jake C.,
    “I use my real name” was a hallmark of slappy Jason Adam Miller Free 123. What the fuck does that mean other than you have no understanding of the Internet? Sure, you use your real name because you said so. Send us your address, phone number, SS number, birth date, and a scan of your driver’s license, so we can judge for ourselves.

  39. “Courts have already ruled that a uniformed officer telling you that you are under arrest removes that right to resist as the arrest is legal at that point.” However courts in a few states have said that if excessive force is used to make the arrest, or used after the arrest is made, then you have a right to resist. Other than that, yeah the arrest is legal at that point, later it may be called unlawful, color of law, or just plain stupid because the cop didn’t know the law.
    Pragmatically, even in states that have laws that allow resisting an unlawful arrest, proving it is a high hurdle because cops are held to a higher standard and fulfill it.. After all, they are held to “ignorance of the law is no excuse” while the rest of us aren’t.

  40. I have to admit that I’m getting a whole new take on a BA in Psychology and a BS in Criminology. Maybe it’s just the banality, the vapidity, the lack of depth, or maybe it’s just the unexamined life. Whatever it is, it doesn’t express itself with any sophistication but with naievete.

  41. It’s funny to watch you. It’s like you stutter as you can’t complete even simple thoughts in a single posting.

    Anyway…
    Did you even read that crap you wrote at 810? How disjointed can you brain get that that is sensible? What absolute crap.

  42. Ariel,

    Nevermind.these guys. Seriously it isnt worth it because they either dont or simply cant understand things.

    It is a practice in futility to try to have rational.discussion with them.

  43. t.,
    If I did simple, you’d have a chance, admittedly slim, to understand. Unfortunately for you, I don’t do simple. My 810 is easily recognized by others here as a slam on cop ignorance of law, that cops are held to a lower standard than the rest of us, and, where you are right, that the actuall law and the pragmatic application for the rest of us is vastly different. You can beat someone into a coma, but heaven forbid they resist. The police report will always justify the beating, even if the video doesn’t.

    Now, something you just have to understand is that copworld isn’t the real world, it’s copworld. If I use your simple mathematics, then copworld is 2.7% of people claiming their world is the world. You beat gays though, because they’re only ~2%. However, blacks beat you because they’re about 13% and hispanics swamp you because they’re 16% (in my neighborhood, Arizona, about 23%). So, using your simple mathematics, I should certainly give more weight to the world view of blacks and hispanics.
    Whoosh.

  44. Logic,
    I like Common Sense and 31B, for reasons tangible and intangible (31B and his kids is just heartwarming, and Common Sense often modifies his stance by argument). However. t. is hubris walking. He came here to bring the peons the truth.

  45. Ariel,

    Have I been wrong using the .25% of the population as a figure or did you move the decimal?

    I mean local and state LEO as percentage of population.

    Or are including others into you figure?
    Just want to undestand for future refernce.

  46. Ariel,

    31b hasnt shown to be incapable of rational conversation with me yet.
    The others I listed have.

    They might consider that a good thing. But either way for now I am not playing their game.

  47. Logic,
    No, I hit one too many zeros. It is 0.27% (800,000/300,000,000). So copworld doesn’t even have the weight of gays by a factor of 7, if truths could be arrived at by simple division and multiplication.

    Given how many PDs are homophobic, it’s got to hurt.

  48. Ariel,

    Okay. because I was thinking damn I have been using the wrong statistics.
    Yeah, copworld is tiny.

    I saw a study the other day about the declining crime rate and the relation to the aging population. I thought I saved ut somewhere but cant find it. It will come in handy when relating cop populAtion statistics I think.

  49. Some very deranged people in this world. That is the reason the police exhist. They aren’t going anywhere people.

    Take Ariel for example. He tries manipulating people. He was a salesman and that’s what salesmen do. He should be arrested for his unethical and immoral sales practices as well as not taking his meds.

  50. ATTN:

    previous post is why that poster should be ignored.

    he prefers telling people to take their meds than to contribute to a conversation.

    We must take back this forum if we want to succeed.

  51. ATTN:

    Previous post is why that poster should be ignored. I contributed to the conversation and “Logic” AKA Alvin doesn’t agree that there are deranged people, such as Ariel, which is why the police exhist. Therefore it’s easier to ignore (which ironically he didn’t since he addressed my post) what one disagrees with. Lets start cleaning up this country by shooting salesmen. You agree with that Logic AKA Alvin?

  52. See there…at least you were able to pick out the stupid part. You still defend it as making sense…but at least you recognize it. Is held to lower standard. Sure.

    I (we) don’t exist in “cop world”. Our world IS your world. Where you have said that as a copier toner salesman that you are ethically saving the world one sale at a time….you daily, weekly, monthly, yearly contact is a very small little circle. You deal,with the same circle of folks: those at your office, the same regular business clients, your family, your neighbors, maybe people at church. You probably eat at pretty much the same places most of the time. That’s ok. That’s noraml. That’s what most people’s world is.

    I on the other hand have some of those same contacts regularly…but it’s the irregular contacts that through my line of work that change that game.

    I’ll finish later…..

  53. If I was the type to break into homes, I would buy a badge for $5 and holler “police”. Ergo, so can anybody else. Yelling “police” won’t save you from getting shot in my home. If anybody breaks in, I will shoot them, cop or not.

  54. K…..

    Anyway, the short of it is that he police contact people of every walk. Size, shape…..everything, everyday. From CEO’s to the homeless. Kids to the elderly. My world, as you say, contacts just about every part of the rest of the world …..each and everyday. Now generally, we usually see them at theirs worst, on what is often the worst day of their lives It’s a lot different than dealing with numbers on a page in an office like you do.
    I’m not knocking you, your life or what you do. I do think its funny that you still think you are the smartest guy in the room and I don’t think you have even the slightest idea of what the police really do. You are only a slight step above Shawn and Certain who only know what they see on TV….. And have even openly defended what they see as true

    Anyway, keep thinking that you’re thinking

  55. Just noticed the “take back this forum if we want to succeed”.

    Yeah Logic,

    They tried the log in feature. My guess is it took many FRN’s to sustain and they weren’t getting enough “donations”. If you really want this forum to “succeed”, open up your wallet and give them some FRN’s. You can trust they will put your funds to good use. (Eye roll)

    So now we are back to using which ever name we’d like. You utilize it well with your three desperate identities, so I’m not quiet sure what your bitching about.

  56. * separate identities.

  57. Logic: I know I’m not trying to take over this site. I just don’t want people getting bad advice and making bad decisions based in hat bad advice when they deal,with the police.

  58. Just shows the lack of deductive reasoning and poor investigation when ERD calls me Logic, or Logic me. I guess it is an impossibility in the mind of a cop that citizens like us can think as we do. Here’s a news flash for “them”. There will be an increasing # of us as the average American is growing increasingly sick of “their” type of America. Just read a perfect example on Yahoo news. A woman, who escaped jail in Chicago 37 years ago, changed her identity and was living in San Diego all this time. Out of trouble, and minding her Ps and Qs. All of a sudden the cops figure out who she is from a tip. And, Blamo, they bust her. Now, I could see spending the time and resources on a murderer, or a rapist, or perhaps a gang lord. But, a woman who was arrested on Suspicion (I know, she was probably guilty) of Petty Larceny from nearly 4 decades ago? I’m thinking that were I in charge or the head badge somewhere where this fell on my desk, I’d say, “let her know that we know who she is, tell here to keep her nose clean. Call it time served”. How much will this cost the taxpayers by the time they extradite her back to Chicago. Add in all of he social costs that will pile up for the disruption of this “criminal’s” life and can any of you badge wearers claim that justice was served? There was a time in this country’s history when the police weren’t sporting their ass as headwear nor their anus as a neck kerchief.

  59. Alvin,

    I think the police in this country were always fairly thuggish once they were given authority to determine what to enforce. They started out enforcing what judges mandated they enforce based on citizen need.

    Look how police acted in Chicago 1910-1940’s.

    In NY in the 1870-1890s

    Or LA in the 1960-1990’s
    or towards black people in the south.
    Or migrant workers in the south west.

    It is just we have the means.to know instantly when it happens now.
    And people are tired of it.

    We have to demand that police stop.wasting our money but to be fair the police had no choice to arrest that woman because she was wanted because a judge ordered it.

    I dont want cops deciding what is legal. That isnt there job.

  60. BTW Alvin,

    I am you, and some recent high school graduate named Kate, and some other person named Casual Observer. Which I guess makes you those peoples too?

    At least we are a young smart teenage girl who can shoot real good and string a sentence together.

    ;-)

  61. Logic and Alvin remind me of CENTURION and his imaginary friends.

  62. T, Jake C, JQP

    See that clip from the OIS down southwest? the AR through the windshield? Should check it out.

  63. Alvin,

    we are Centurion too!

    Trolls say: “but whine whine we arent trying to take over.this.forum”

    Oh okay. I just guess though they are the only ones who are actually on this.forum as I appear to be everyone else who isnt them. LMAO

  64. Very telling that common sense included slappy in his shout out.

    Please continue to show how you are not taking over this website.

    It helps my case.

  65. Logic acknowledged my post after he said he would ignore me. I knew he couldn’t resist. Find the criminal statute for “Failure To Intervene” yet? I thought not.

  66. Yes,

    Because these dead threads are helping me show that you are trolls.

    You cant stop talking about people or posting one more time.

    All I have to do is mention your post and you troll on over to give me another post to show that you do not contribute.and should be controlled if we want this site to succeed.

    Go on JQP you have demonstrated how well you comprehend thus far.

    Ademo.said on reddit recently that he wanted to give you guys a chance.

    That he thought if we engaged you in conversation it could lead to an understanding for both sides.

    I am pointing out that doesnt work.

    I came here. I posted to all of you with respect which you all turned right around and showed your true selves.

    So I dont have to be nice to you. I dknt really have to ignore you because that experiment worked. Now I am showing that you cant be expected to have a decent conversation on this site and that you being allowed to stay is now harming copblock.org.

    Others realize this and have posted and contacted copblock.org about you all.

    We are just trying to find a way to do away with you now while keeping the essence of copblock.org unchanged.

    But you can pat yourself on the back for being a good little.troll.

  67. Sorry, Ademo called you copsuckers not trolls.

  68. “But, a woman who was arrested on Suspicion (I know, she was probably guilty) of Petty Larceny from nearly 4 decades ago?”

    Alvin, you might want to go back and re-read that story. Matter of fact, here it is. Note that is says that she was in fact convicted and was 14 months into a 10 year sentence:

    SAN DIEGO (AP) — A woman who escaped from a Michigan prison nearly 37 years ago while serving time for attempted larceny was found living under an alias in San Diego, police said Tuesday.

    Acting on a tip from the Michigan Department of Corrections, San Diego police went to an apartment on Monday in the Hillcrest neighborhood, where a woman matching the description of fugitive Judy Lynn Hayman answered the door.

    She identified herself as Jamie Lewis and produced government documents with the name, San Diego police Lt. Kevin Mayer said. Officers, however, remained suspicious because of inconsistencies in her story and her resemblance to an old Michigan mug shot they were holding.

    “Her eyes gave her away,” Mayer said. “The eyes in the picture matched the eyes of this woman.”

    The officers took her to a police station, where she eventually acknowledged being Hayman, Mayer said.

    Hayman, 60, was being held in a San Diego County jail awaiting extradition to Michigan, where she escaped from the Ypsilanti prison in 1977 while serving time for attempted larceny, Mayer said. He did not know if she had retained an attorney and no court date had been set.

    When she escaped, Hayman was about halfway through a minimum sentence of 1 1/2 years for attempting to steal clothes from a Detroit-area store.

    Corrections Department spokesman Russ Marlan said Tuesday she must be returned to prison to finish the sentence, which has a maximum term of two years. The state parole board typically determines whether an inmate can be released after serving the minimum.

    “We can’t just write it off,” he said. “We don’t have the ability to say it’s been a long time, you’re free to go,” he said.

    Authorities in Washtenaw County, Mich., where the prison is located, would decide whether additional charges related to the escape are filed, Marlan said.

    It was not immediately clear how long the woman had been living in San Diego. Her 32-year-old son was visiting when police arrived, and officers said he appeared stunned by their questions.

    “This seemed very much a surprise to him,” Mayer said.

    He did not have the son’s name, and public listings for the residence under the name Jamie Lewis did not include a phone number.

    Neighbors said Hayman had lived in the complex for several years and mostly kept to herself.

    Neighbor Maria Lopez, 60, told the U-T San Diego newspaper that Hayman did not appear to work. She said people came by the house to do her laundry, and she had frequent visits from her son.

    Mayer said he was impressed by the investigators’ ability to “put some dots together” and provide San Diego officers with the right address after nearly four decades.

    “I commend them for their tenacity,” he said. “This is a very old case.”

    The case is similar to that of Marie Walsh, who also escaped from a Michigan prison when she was known as Susan LeFevre.

    Walsh had served 14 months of a 10-year prison sentence for a heroin deal when she fled in 1976. She was found living under an alias in San Diego, in 2008.

    Walsh spent 13 more months in prison then returned to San Diego where she resumed her life with her husband of more than 20 years and wrote a book called “A Tale of Two Lives” about her ordeal.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fugitive-found-california-37-years-escape-174324734.html

  69. My bad, she was about halfway through a minimum sentence of 1 1/2 years.

  70. So, Logic just proved that he/ she is full of shit. Cool. If Mueller wants to kick us off, let him. This is pretty much a cop hater site now anyhow, regardless of what Pete says. When you have copblock spinoffs as well as posters on this site threatening to kill police, all credibility is gone. Not to mention all the misinformation and fake stories posted on this site. The only thing that is harming copblock is copblock itself. Only copblock “sheep” truly believe the stories and misinformation posted on this site, even after its been proven to be false. And folks like Logic ignore other posters who out them when they try misinformation. So, go ahead Logic, don’t be nice. Be just like the rest of the “I hate pigs/ swine” crowd. Never mind, you already are. By the way, your obsession with Jake/ Jason/ Slappy is exactly what he wants from you and you fall for it. It is actually funny to watch.

  71. JQP cant even comprehend what he himself cuts and pastes.
    LOL

  72. Thanks JQP

    I will pass on your thoughts about the forum and what you think of the site in general.

    It shows you werent here for contributing anything and dont need to be allowed to stay.

    And you are not the arbiter of what is factual or what can be discussed. Just because something isnt true also.doesnt mean.that those discussing that sort of situation beleive it to be true.

    But.again that isnt your position on this website now is it?

    And none of your copsuckers have outed anything. Claiming you are right and.being right while.devolving into childishness isnt proving anything.

    But it gave me some great posts to show my point about you and your purpose on this site.

    Again thanks.for making my goal so.easy. It took under a week for me to do it.

  73. From my ultra-conservative part of America, it is very difficult to derive whom the worse is from a decency POV, the guy who would fellate another man or the man who would allow another man to fellate him. Something for JQP to consider. For me, JQP has shown his morality to me already.

  74. Alvinx

    What has happened with this site is that most of the moderates, those who are only calling for the end to corruption. Those calling for cops to be required to follow the law. Those who are law abiding citizen. Those who want accountability and respect have been driven away.

    They dont have the time or energy to explain their side to a bunch of copsuckers who overrun every discussion with name calling and obtuse miscomprehension.

    What is left are a few vocal people who are more “anti-cop” many are hit and run posters who are aggravated by the copsuckers more than anything.

    And so the copsuckers think they have a mandate now because we are all drug using hippies who cant think for ourselves.

    It muddies the message because most people I know who are all for cop accountability are not anything but decent hardworking people who do have brains enough to articulate their message.but get lost on this.forum.

    I know ademo says to.post on facebook where they control.it better but this is the flagship website. And I almost think if they cang get control over the forum them it might be best to remove the forum feature altogehter.

  75. One final point before I call it a night.

    Look at the first posts from the last year or so.
    Probably, 80% are “first” from one of the copsuckers or “This is all a lie….”

    When someone comes to read and they notice that it doesn’t encourage conversation.

    And those who post that are not contributing to any discussion or fact finding.

    They are trolls.

  76. You don’t need me to tell you what happened, Logic. You know all too well as to why we are here. I believe it is because the Police have gotten their egos and bully mentality out in the real world and attempt to utilize those same tactics and actions here in the virtual world. The military members are much the same, although there are many ex-mil or current mil that don’t subscribe to that way of thinking. But, as you’ve stated, if you deviate one iota from the standard group-think, you are a subversive. Well, label me subversive. I’m as subversive as some gentlemen named Revere, Watson, Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, or Allen. Please forgive me for not adopting the authoritarian-class thinking, which was the same thinking as a fellow named Arnold.

  77. Logic, I think Pete and Adam already see what’s going on in this site. I’m sure they don’t need you to tell them. You call people childish and use the term “copsucker” in the same sentence? Who’s more childish? By the way, that’s a rhetorical question that I’m sure you’ll free to answer anyhow. Any state or federal criminal statutes on “Failure To Intervene” yet? And, you know who Mueller is but not Kate? Interesting. I’d say Adam and Kate are an item. See for yourself:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151510699633083&set=a.483233328082.277674.638303082&type=3&theater

  78. Logic aka Alvin:

    Why do those of us who comment with an opposing viewpoints bother you so?
    If you are SO convinced that your pioints….your ideas….your cause is soooo right….why all the bullying attempts?
    Why the liberal shout down tactics?
    Why do you fear so badly open debate?

    Oh, and your back and forth between you “two” only makes it look more suspicious. And it’s funny that Alvin hadn’t been heard from ever since you showed up….until someone accuses you of being him. Hmmm. Either way it doesn’t matter. Both of you have the same sovereign ideas and tactics, the same violent rhetoric, and you garner the same amount of respect from others because of it. None.

  79. QP

    Is it possible for you to comprehend anything not in a picture book? Guess not as you even provided your own pictures with your last post.

    I already explained that copsucker is the term that Ademo uses for the trolls on this website that he thought we could have intelligent conversations with if we just tried engaging them.

    Thus the use of the term as I have proven you can not have a conversation with these “copsuckers” as he put it.
    —————————–

    As for your repeated request on the law for Failure to Intervene: it is quite simple. You are in violation of your oath as a peace officer if you break any constitutional laws. As a cop you must stop a criminal act if you see one taking place.

    Two charges a cop can face if he doesn’t stop another cop from breaking the law besides Violation of Oath is:
    Obstructing governmental administration
    and
    Official Misconduct
    These can be a Felony depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction.

    Official misconduct
    A public servant is guilty of official misconduct when he knowingly refrains from performing a duty which is imposed upon him by law or is clearly inherent in the nature of his office.

    Obstructing governmental administration
    A person is guilty of obstructing governmental administration when he intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the administration of law.

    I realize you won’t understand any if this because it is just too difficult and I failed to provide pictures.

    And I am sure ANOTHER troll will jump up with some stupid nonsensical comment for me to “prove” it with a statute.

    So just type those words in to google and pick whatever state you want the statute for and find them yourself.

    But then again you think violation of oath means perjury. LMAO

    Why you don’t ask your friend T for this information is beyond me. Or do you realize he isn’t a cop and that is why he doesn’t understand the crimes a cop can be charged with?

    Because cops are taught this at the Academy and in Police Science or Criminology Courses.

    But I guess Faux Cop didn’t get this deep in his wikidive.

    Or are you not really interested in learning you just want thought you could call me out?

    Wrong Yet Again.
    Now shut the hell up about me spoon-feeding you trolls every little thing, because everything I have said I can back up with proven facts. You trolling around claiming I can’t just makes you look too mentally deficient to actually think for yourself.

    JQP

    Is it possible for you to comprehend anything not in a picture book?  Guess not as you even provided your own pictures with your last post.

    I already explained that copsucker is the term that Ademo uses for the trolls on this website that he thought we could have intelligent conversations with if we just tried engaging them.

    Thus the use of the term as I have proven you can not have a conversation with these “copsuckers” as he put it.
    —————————–

    As for your repeated request on the law for Failure to Intervene: it is quite simple.  You are in violation of your oath as a peace officer if you break any constitutional laws.  As a cop you must stop a criminal act if you see one taking place. 

    Two charges a cop can face if he doesn’t stop another cop from breaking the law besides Violation of Oath is:
    Obstructing governmental administration
    and
    Official Misconduct 
    These can be a Felony depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction. 

    Official misconduct
    A public servant is guilty of official misconduct when he knowingly refrains from performing a duty which is imposed upon him by law or is clearly inherent in the nature of his office.

    Obstructing governmental administration
    A person is guilty of obstructing governmental administration when he intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the administration of law.

    I realize you won’t understand any if this because it is just too difficult and I failed to provide pictures. 

    And I am sure  ANOTHER troll will jump up with some stupid nonsensical comment for me to “prove” it with a statute.

    So just type those words in to google and pick whatever state you want the statute for and find them yourself.

    But then again you think violation of oath means perjury. LMAO

    Why you don’t ask your friend T for this information is beyond me.  Or do you realize he isn’t a cop and that is why he doesn’t understand the crimes a cop can be charged with?

    Because cops are taught this at the Academy and in Police Science or Criminology Courses.

    But I guess Faux Cop didn’t get this deep in his wikidive.

    Or are you not really interested in learning you just want thought you could call me out?

    Wrong Yet Again. 
    Now shut the hell up about me spoon-feeding you trolls every little thing, because everything I have said I can back up with proven facts.  You trolling around claiming I can’t just makes you look too mentally deficient to actually think for yourself.

  80. T,

    Shut up.

    You have never had a debate on here.

    You have name callinglling fits fillled.with pseudo facts plucked from.nothing more than your own faux cop head.

    crap that.even you yourelf cant even keep straight from post to post or day to day.

    You are a farse and all you do is continue this fit day after day.

    If you. or anyone of the other.trolls wanted actuak debate you would shut up long enough for someone to be able to post.

    Bue even when I have posted facts to back up my position you cant see that because you are on such a fit you are too busy highfiving each other over childish name calling.

    Again you are a farce and should remove yourself from.this.forun.
    But you wont because you like to be a faux cop bully.

  81. I agree Alvinthat cops are.too used to being able.to run their mouth and.think.they can do it anywhere.

    However, I dont believe anyone is a cop here except maybe 31b. I have already proven T IS NOT A COP. Common sense, Jake and JQP have admitted to not being one.

    They are all people who have no power in their own miserable lifes so they go online and group troll to a site where they think we are pot smoking, school drop outs who wont be able to defend ourselves.

    You can see this because as soon as anyine challenges their lies and made up facts.they self implode.

    They can keep.saying I am.everyone else.

    Fine I am one person agaisnt all.of them and they still cant get a decent conversation in. It is just non-stop trolling.

  82. My post to JQP I must have hit paste twice…….

    Oh well maybe if he reads it twice he might grasp half of it.

  83. Logic, Certain and JQP aren’t cops. Both become extremely offended at being compared to a cop, especially when the comparison paints a negative picture. They’ve both vehemently voiced that they aren’t cops. However, JQP was a career military guy, so he will stand up for the govt. at every instance because he was a govt. trained stooge. Certain definitely isn’t a cop, he leans towards the common sense (not the troll) in is thinking. Certain just sides with the govt. in being anti-2nd amend. He’ll claim otherwise, but he is willing to throw the 2nd out. I will never understand people being pro-one amendment over the others, whether that advocated amend. is the 1st, the 2nd, the 5th, or increasingly the 4th.

  84. LOL, the irony of the photo at the top of this thread is lost on the trolls here. I, on the other hand, see it as a metaphor for where we are at this point in time in our country. We (the left and the right) are in a Mexican standoff over the direction we should go. And neither of us are willing or want to squeeze the trigger to eliminate the other because the danger to themselves is greater than their comfort level.

  85. Alvin,

    Yes, I can tell JQP is ex military because he cant think for himself. He had to enter a profession where they told him where to live, how to.dress, even how many millimeters his badge has to be from his pocket. He needs to be spoonfed everything.

    I AM NOT SAYING ALL MILITARY CANT THINK. I AM SAYING IT IS A GOOD PROFESSION FOR THOSE WHO CANT.

    I dont understand people who pick and choose amendments either. Frankly I am not thrilled idiots have.the.freedom of speech but they do and I will fight for that right.

    What bothers people with citizens being able to defend themselves against a cop is.that they are clueless to how cops really act. They think if you are innocent you will never be abused so if they abuse you must have been guilty.

    I am amazed by these sorts.

    That is why I am thankful for people who work to expose police misconduct. The more we point out the more people who potentially come over to our side.

  86. Once again, Logic is right and everyone else is wrong. All that and still no “Failure To Intervene” charge. Interesting.

  87. Liable and slander against an anonymous internet user name? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

    Slaps, you never fail to amuse. Never. Except when you post bestiality videos. Because that is actually pretty sick, that you would even know how to find such a thing.

    YOU ARE SLAPPY. SUE ME.

  88. JQP

    You are an idiot who doesnt understand the law.

    When you fail to intervene you could commit several crimes. I gave you three with which cops are most often charged with.

    Failure to intervene is the term for all crimes of that nature.

    Just like the term Theft. Theft is a crime but the crime you are charged with is Racketeering, or Embezzlement or Larceny, Shoplifting , Fraud, etc.

    You really need to learn when to stop. You just look ridiculous and dont know jack about the law.

    They are all crimes of theft.

  89. Certain,

    Slappy is accusing me of a crime on another thread. Saying his laywer friends his head are coming for me.

    I just told him to bring the lawyers on over here and then we can see who has a libel suit. He hasnt been back. LOL

    Slappy is a joke even to the voices in his head.

  90. Logic,

    WOW you found a story worth posting. That fire truck provides protection to EVERYONE working the scene, in the event that a car should come flying their way. That pumper will block the car from hitting the workers. I agree that cop should be terminated. Most other cops believe he should be terminated.

    Post mythical articles and you’ll get sarcasm and ridicule. (Most of it is crap just to stir up controversy) Post actuall articles with facts and unedited video and you’ll get a good conversation.

  91. Oh, if someone who makes up their own name, and deals drugs is a hero to you, then you have some serious issues. I.E. “Ademo Freeman”.

  92. ERD,

    Assume much?

    I never said Ademo was anything other than someone who recently addressed the troll problem on here by saying he believed if we engaged you in convo you would stop trolling.

    I was out to prove he was giving you too much credit.

    I am not the one who collects pictures of the people who run copblock.

    And I am well aware of Incident Command Systems Protocols.
    This cop should be fired but the CHP for now wont even release his name and is saying it is a training problem. No, it is an attitude problem. CHP are trained for.this. He didnt miss a day and not learn something.

    We will see.what becomes of him and hopefully the FF sues him.

  93. What I would like to know is why the Police Chief didnt arrest the CHP as soon as he was made aware that the cop violated CA Law?

  94. John Q: Here is the case you want Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748, In it SCOTUS Opined there is no duty to protect

  95. The person who wrote this article, wrote it just to slam police officers and nothing else. There is nothing intelligent about this article. The author talks about the number of people killed by police is 5,000. He fails to mention that is from 9/11 to around 2012. In 2013 there were only 305 police shootings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2013
    In 2012, there were 587
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2012 What the author failed to state was that these shootings are justifiable shootings. The author is trying to be misleading about what those numbers truly represent. Yes, some innocent civilians have been shot by police.Average police dying in the line of duty is around 130 per year. It is troubling that this author has chosen to mislead real stats just to invoke emotional responses. It does not invoke and educational response.

  96. An incident similar to that happened in Missouri. The cop was fired. Firefighter sued and won.

    Collects pictures of those who run copblock?
    Yeah, whatever that means.

  97. ERD,

    JQP collects pictures of copblockers. Not you. Not me. Well I have no evidence you do.

    Yes, it is similar to the MO incident.

    I think CHP did this a couple of years ago too. Dont remember if there was a lawsuit like in the MO one.

  98. Alvin: I mean logic:

    What facts can’t I keep,straight?

    What facts have to put up to prove any of your mess?

    Heck….I’ve asked you to put anything up…..and the wait continues.
    But you have now made the accusation that I am inconsistent . Where? About what? Come on smart guy. Where.

  99. t,

    You cant keep your own researched facts straight and when you realize you are wrong you run around screaming how noone has spoonfed you facts.

    You cant even articulate what facts you want but would rather roll over conversations with “stupid beyond stupid” and “soooooo slow”. I don’t respond to that.

    I am not.the one wanting knowledge here. I already have my ducks in a row.

    The problem for you is I have already decided you are a shit stirring faux cop not interested in anything you didnt think of from some night long research fest.

  100. Again….and I’ll go s l o w l y…what have I:
    Gotten wrong?
    Been inconsistent about?
    Mess up in researching?

    Guy I get it.
    You’re all mad because I called you out about your being wrong (well, lying is wrong) about the SFST’s, and intoxilyzers. Youare wrong about how lawsuits against officers works. You aren’t right about defamation. You are wrong about unions and insurance companies. I’m sorry if you have been led astray by folks on this site and info wars Alex jones.

    What else…
    Oh right. JQP successfully outed you about your info on the departments / towns “losing” their insurance.

    Heck, I’d be hard pressed to know what you’ve been right about. When asked for facts…you just scream like a child.

    So again….
    What have I been inconsistent about?

  101. Dude,

    You are so slow.

    You didnt prove anything wrong. What you didnt get were facts.
    Absence IS NOT Proof.

    What you did was devolve the conversation intk name calling and I left it.

    I dont have to provide you with facts. And even when I Did on another issue you still had a tantrum.

    So go ahead and claim you proved something by me not discussing it with you anymore.

    It doesnt matter I know the facts, I knownthe studies, I provide them for anyone arrested for DUI.

    And since you are not a cop it isnt like you will perform any SFST or chem tests on anyone.

    So now that you have been schooled on your lack of knowledge on how to actually prove something in a debate why dont you get back.to hunting down some baseless pseudo facts to counter the FBI stats on the other page. LMAO.

    As for JQP and the towns. Two.of.them he provided links.that were two years old.
    Convenient for his theory but not.in fact accurate.

    I could provide towns that lost their insurance for police misconduct Ten years ago butnthat wouldnt be a fair discussion of facts.

    Oh and JQP thinks Violation of Oath means Perjury and that “Failure to Intervene” isnt a criminal charge. Yeah he is a real fact finding genius yiu should hang your hat on.

    The ONLY THING you have been consistant about is being a whiney little bully bitch.

  102. I don’t collect pictures. I just looked on Mueller’s facebook page and posted a link. You sure are a bit dim, ain’t you Logic? And, you’re trying to justify what you think “Failure To Intervene” is. Its something you said as a specific crime. It’s not. Its grounds for a civil suit. Keep on swinging. You might get a hit eventually. “I dont have to provide you with facts.” That is the truth Logic. You sure =haven’t yet, so why try now?

  103. Oh…I get now.

    “I” have provide you with facts about how you are wrong.
    “you” don’t have to provide any facts about how you are “right”.

    Again…..post a study where SFST’s are disproven. NHSTA’s studies have been independently studied and verified time after time by multiple sources (Ariel….you see the difference…multiple studies with the same results not just one study with speculative results).
    But I give you insight into the parts you are missing about that entire process:
    SFST’s are only part of it. It’s a totality. It’s driving (if you can get it). It’s motor function. Things like appearance, odors. SFST’s aren’t given if there isn’t something else there first. PBT’s aren’t given unless there is something else there first. Same for i”breathalyzers”.
    It’s totality. Not just he single thing.

  104. John Q Public – Don’t let that so called “Logic” get to you. As you may notice, he never stays on topic, most of his facts and figures are right off the barn floor, and the defensive potion he takes on every question just baffles the mind. I personally have never seen such childish behaviors by someone. It’s a scenario of his way or the highway. I’m surprised copblock doesn’t kick him off of the site. He claims to know Ademeo so well. I personally think Ademeo Muller or what every he calls himself this week is an egotistical maniac who has 5 felonies on his rap sheet. He isn’t a clean person at all. I doubt Logic is clean either. If copblock were to censor all who have a different opinion, then what copblock preaches is a lie. How long has Logic acted this way?

  105. Jake, no one gets kicked off of this site or I would’ve been gone a long time ago. I’m not to worried about logic. He’s just a typical copblocker. He can write a thousand word essay and it won’t have any substance or facts. He’s fun to poke and watch him get all riled up though. You’re better at it than I am though. He uses ALL CAPs when sending messages at you.

  106. JQP: I actually give the site props about it. They allow disentangle voices and debate.

  107. t didn’t know Christopher Donner was a cop tired of hiding behind the thin blue line. I wouldn’t trust anything he/she writes to be truthful. He/she then lied repeatedly to save face. The last thing that moron has in mind is education. If you find yourself trusting t’s words, please contact me. I have a beautiful piece of land in Florida I’ll sell you at a good price.

  108. You folks dont follow too well, do you?

    I dont beleive I have ever even spoke to Ademo or Adam or whatever you want to call him.

    I was merely saying he had been on another website doing an interview where someone asked him about the lack of troll.control on this.website.

    He called the.trolls copsuckers and said he.thought you could.add to the discussion if we engaged you.

    I wanted to prove him wrong. I have.

    Now thinking he my hero, or my friend, or anything just shows you cant have a legitimate discussion because that sort of leep in logic is a systemic fault.

    BTW you are all way off base if you think just because one copblocker does drugs we all do. As I have already said. I have never done any drugs. Not even marijuana. I would bet most cops cant even say that.

  109. Wow. This asshole probably just sits in his moms basement and writes this filth.

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